On Creative Assemblies, The Spark Podcast, our mission is to amplify Nashville’s diverse creative voices, foster growth through shared journeys, and inspire a city that thrives on collaboration.And now, here’s The Spark.Hello, everyone.Welcome back to The Spark.This episode is a little different.I’m Josh Moquin, and I’m your host today.Our regular host, Mark Scrivener, co-founder, CEO of Snapshot, is stepping out of this chair and into the guest seat for the first time.A lot of our past guests and audience have encouraged us to interview Mark to hear his story, to hear his journey, and I’m happy to get to do that for you today.So Mark, welcome to the other side of the microphone.What’s it like sitting in a, in a different chair than normal?Oh, Josh, man, thanks for, uh, teeing it up.I think, uh, it is a little awkward, I gotta tell you-that, uh, I’m sitting on this side, but I’m excited about this episode.After 52 episodes, which is one year of us doing this, we’ve had a lot of people ask us to, uh, to do an episode like this.Uh, so I’m excited to share my journey with the, um, with the audience.Yeah.Well, uh, I’m honored that I get to be the one to-help guide that, and, uh, excited to, to, to dive into it.But I think, uh, we should start kinda way back at the beginning, right?Uh, so in your 20s I know you worked in the restaurants, uh, industry.You worked for J.Alexander’s, you worked for Houston’s, all before you even considered advertising.Tell me a little bit about that journey from the restaurant industry in your 20s to jumping headfirst into marketing.Yeah, man, well that’s a long journey, but, uh-I went to college for hospitality restaurant administration, and, uh, started in Kansas City with, uh, Houston’s restaurants, and, uh, then moved to Nashville and worked with Houston’s for about three and a half years in operations.Then moved over to J.Alexander’s.They recruited me away, uh, at a time where they were not doing very well as a company, and my role was to come in and help them turn the company around.And so spent, uh, about 8 years with J.Alexander’s through various roles of, uh, you know, management development, all the way to, when I left the company I was a regional director- Mm-hmmand managed 400 employees in, in, uh, 7, 8 different restaurants, uh, all across the country.So a lot of travel, a lot of, uh, the phone never stops ringing-a lot of, uh, just issues that happen in the restaurant biz.It’s a great business, but it’s also very hard.And a lot of times people ask, like, “Hey, how did you make this transition?”And, um, you know, I did, uh, well with some stock that I got with J.Alexander’s, and so I was gonna take a year off and write a business plan for, uh, uh, a restaurant.Because I’d turned one around, it’s like, man, why don’t I do one for my own?And, um, you know, after about a week of doing that, I became, like, very bored, um-because my phone wasn’t ringing as much and the energy wasn’t there.And so I started networking with people and, uh, um, one of my old roommates encouraged me to, uh, meet a guy that had an agency, and he was working with him, um, running a call center.And so- Mm-hmmyou know, I went and, uh, talked to this gentleman, and, um, actually, uh, was like, “Hey, man, I’m looking for an operator, um, to kinda run the agency, because I know how to do the advertising.But, um, you know, I’m looking for somebody that can actually help me grow it and scale it.”And, you know, I said, “Man, I don’t know anything about advertising, but I do know how to hire people and hire the right teams and kinda scale something.”And so that’s how I made the transition from restaurants to advertising.A lot of people always ask me that question, “Man, how’d you make that pivot?”‘Cause you think once you’re in an industry, that’s the only thing you can do- Mm-hmmfor your life.And, you know, if you’re great and you, you know, have learned a bunch of skills, it’s pretty transferable to other things.Yeah, I think it’s a unique transition.And I know you were, uh, at CJ for a while, ended up working your way to the director of operations and taking that company from 20-odd folks to 80-plus.So I’m curious, what was it like during that growth period, and what from your restaurant industry did you feel like was, uh, applicable to the work that you were doing at CJ?That’s, uhWell, first off, I would say I felt like I was on vacation every day-because people, like, came in at 8:00, and they left at usually 5:00 or 6:00 in the afternoons.And so it was good, because it was, for me, it was a great quality of life.And, uh, you know, I think the, you know, I had to come in and learn the business very quickly.Arnie, who, uh, was the CEO there, who’s been on the show before, and just a great, uh, great CEO, who was, uhYou know, he, I had to learn the business from him.Um, and we had different, uh, departments.So we had a media buying team, we had, uh, production, we had, um, we had web, we had SEO back in the day, we had PR.So I had to learn each and every department along the way so that I could learn how to hire the people, ’cause we were gonna scale pretty quickly.We went from, you know, 20 employees to 85, like you said, before I left.And, uh, so not only learning- Hey, those departments and what we do for our clients in those departments, but who do we need to hire that are gonna be the best fits that are gonna help us scale this business?And so, you know, there, that was, um, you know, a, a big thing, and we did a lot of coaching along the way, so we brought in, uh, executive coaches to help coach our leadership team, and I led a lot of that with the, uh, with Arnie.And, and so got to learn that because even in the restaurant biz we didn’t do a whole lot of like annual planning, quarterly planning, cascading the goals down, so it was, um, you know, a great journey.And also we rolled out a, a culture program because working with personal injury lawyers, which is who we serve- Mm-hmmnationwide isn’t always the, you know, sexiest-s- kind of advertising.Yeah.I mean, you learn a lot from analytics ’cause every dollar you spend, you need to show a return on, but, uh, you know, you can only say, “Been hurt in an accident,” so many times.Mm-hmm.So many different ways, you know?And, and so, um, we created a culture club that, uh, we rolled out, and, uh, it was something that I helped Arnie implement along the way, and, uh, a lot of those things he used in a book that he wrote.Mm-hmm.Uh, and it’s called Worth Doing Wrong, and, and it’s a great book.If you haven’t read it, you know, I’d encourage anybody to go out and pick that one up.Yeah.I know Arnie played a big role in your growth, uh, just in t- introducing yourself to the agency space.What things did you learn from Arnie along the way that, that made you a great operator?I, um, you know, the culture aspect of it, uh, was something.I mean, he had very high standards for what he did.He, uh, you know, he led the, um, accounts at the time ’cause he knew more about it than anybody else and, you know, so actually then we started to build out an accounts team under him that could start to take over some of the client relationships.Mm-hmm.And, you know, I learned a lot of that.But, um, you know, I, I think the biggest part is the strategic planning, the culture building, um, that I learned from him, and he’s a big-time entrepreneur.He in, uh, introduced me to EO Nashville, which I’ve been a part of for about 14 years now, since we’ve launched our company.Mm-hmm.And, uh, you know, he’s very entrepreneurial thinking, and so, you know, that probably rubbed off a little bit as, uh, we worked together and, and helped me have the courage to step out and start Snapshot.Yeah, and, uh, that’s a great transition because I know that you were there for how many years?I was there for 4.4 years.So 4 years goes by.Uh, you’ve watched growth happen right in front of you.What makes you make the leap and say, “Hey, this is, this is my turn to start something that I wanna do”?Uh, well, man, that’s a interesting question.I, um, I think I wore my wife out, and she said-“Hey, quit coming up with all these ideas.Okay, we’re gonna let you do this one.”Mm-hmm.Um, it wasn’t like, you know, the traditional agency, you know, start.Either you’re accidental and you get a bunch of clients, or you leave an agency and maybe you take a few clients with you- Mm-hmmand you, um, start your agency.And you know, when we started, we had a really hare-brained idea, and that was video resumes- Mm-hmm’cause I had interviewed probably, I mean, no less than 5,000 people over that 4year period of time- Mm-hmm’cause we filled all those jobs and then had to backfill with turnover and things that happened.Uh, so we had a crazy idea of like let’s do a one-minute video, um, and we’ll serve ’em up so that you can see the person before they actually come in, and you save yourself time and them time because pick the right fit.Mm-hmm.You know if they’re not a right fit before they even come in.And, um, and so that was the idea that we actually launched out with.But they were very high quality and, um, you know, as we got out and we went out on our own and had a $50,000 line of credit, and when that ran out, it was like we gotta go back and get a job, and neither-uh, Ben, my co-founder, or I wanted to, uh, you know, wanted to go get a job with anybody else.And so, um, it was like we had to make it happen.Yeah.Well, I think a lot of people are surprised when they hear, at least people that we meet today, they hear that that’s how the business started.Yeah.So it’s always a fun story to tell.And, uh, you talk about Ben, uh, who I believe worked at CJ with you.Uh, what was that conversation like between you 2 to, to make that step?It’s, it’s obviously a, a big gamble.Oh, man.Well, he, uh, was a young guy.He was probably, uh, you know, 10, 12 years younger than me.Mm-hmm.And, um, so there were, were a lot of conversations, a lot of hallway conversations, a lot of after hours and weekend conversations of trying to build this up.And you know, both of us helping each other have the courage to kind of step out.And, you know, I remember the morning that we, uh, put in our notice to go-launch this.It was, uh, you know, I think we were both super nervous.And it was one of those Stripes moments of, “When I drop my keys, are you gonna drop yours too?”Uh, but we both ended up dropping the keys.Yeah.And that kind of built the trust of, man, we can go out and make this thing happen.So you make the move.Uh, you’re, you’re making video resumes.Uh, what is the next step in Snapshot’s journey?I, you know, we’ve, we’ve pivoted a lot along the ways, but I’m curious, how did the video resume business turn into what would eventually become a content shop, a video production business?Hmm.Yeah, we, um, you know, we quickly saw that, I mean, man, we were shooting great quality videos.They were, uh, we had a technology platform that was pretty much like YouTube, as YouTube was growing.Yeah.And, and youIt was searchable.You could search for whoever you wanted.Um, so I’m out, you know, every morning first thing, at every breakfast, every lunch, every, uh, afternoon happy hour with networking to try to land new business with job seekers who, you know, it was hard to get them to pay $250 for a video resume.But they would spend 1,000 with a resume writer.Mm-hmm.And so we, um, you know, and as we were out and about showing the platform off to CEOs, they, you know, started to ask, like, “Man, do you guy- I need a video that looks like that.”Right.”It’s really high quality, but, you know, I’m not looking for a job.Can you do one for me talking about why, you know, why you should work for me?”Mm-hmm.”Like, what, what all we believe in in our business.”And so, you know, I think a lot of early founders probably hesitate on pivoting too quickly, and some of them, you know, if they don’t, they go down with the Titanic.And we would have had we not pivoted to executive bios that then were showing, you know, CEOs executive bios, and everybody needed video content at the time.When we stepped in in 2010, the cost of video equipment came down significantly, so we’re competing with video companies that had $50,000 cameras, and we’re paying 8.And, you know, it’s the same quality.And we’re editing on iMacs with, uh, Adobe software and paying, you know, co- $100 a month.Mm-hmm.And they’re, they have $200,000 Avid editor bays.So, you know, we, we were able to do things quicker.We were able to do things at the same quality level, and it just helped us keep the prices affordable for small business CEOs.And, um, you know, that journey of shooting a video resume and, or a, uh, or an executive bio, you know, that took us to delivering it.And it was, the first question was, you know, “Where do you, where would you like this video?”Mm-hmm.And, and back then everybody wanted it on their website, and thank God, like, WordPress had went from a blogging tool to really an enterprise CMS.Mm-hmm.And so again, the cost of doing that kind of business reduced significantly.And, um, so we were integrating them to clients’ websites, and the first question after that was, “Man, you made that easy.Do you do websites?’Cause I need one.”Or, “Every time I call my web guy, it’s, uh, you know, 500 bucks to change a phone number, and I know it took him, like, 5 minutes.”And so, you know, we quickly moved from just video to now we’re, you know, building websites, and then we had some requests for doing e- explainer videos.And so, you know, we started doing animation videos and pulling in people that we trusted to help us out until we got enough business there to hire the first editor.So when you say, uh, “We were doing websites and we were doing videos,” what I hear is Ben was out there making them, trying to make it happen and learn it on the go, and you were out trying to sell it.It was actually a-actually a perfect marriage.’Cause, uh, you know, I’m out hustling every day, you know, trying to land the business, and Ben’s like, “Just go get it.I’ll, I’ll figure it out here.”And that was, um, you know, it was his mantra is, “I’ll figure it out.You give me an, a day, and we’ll make this thing happen.”So.Totally.Well, uh, it’s interesting.That, that’s where I joined the company, and, uh, I have a good purview on kind of what happened after that.And I thought what’s interesting is you build this content shop to, uh, a 50-person shop producing websites and animations and videos and, uh, taking on work that, um, is bigger and with bigger clients and bigger budgets.Uh, and then COVID hits.And so you’ve built this business, uh, to be a pretty substantial well-known shop in Nashville, and the business that, um, fed the engine just stops overnight.COVID hits.Tell me about that journey and, and kind of what you went through as, as that happened.Um, that just, uh, gave me chills down my spine-when you say it like that.You know, going back to the, uhit’s funny you say content shop, because even in the early days, probably when you first came aboard, nobody ever used the term content shop.Mm-hmm.It was always very specific to videos- Video shop, web shopwebsites, animations-whatever, and we were a true first content shop- Mm-hmmthat was producing a lot of this for our clients.And so, you know, luckily we’d got to work with probably 4 to 500 small businesses, bigger businesses along the way.And, you know, through that journey, we had a client, HealthStream, and I remember, uh, their marketing VP, uh, came down one day and I’m showing her some of the projects that we were working on with other clients.She said, “What else do you guys do besides video?”And, uh, and I was telling her, and she said, “Could you put together a deck for, uh, everything you guys do?And I want you to come down and present this to our marketing team- Mm-hmm’cause we love working with you, and whatever you can do, we’ll do it with you guys.But I had no idea you did more than just- Rightthe video content that you were creating for us.”And so that actually got us into doing more than just, you know, videos, websites, and animations.We started doing some strategy.We started doing, um, you know, more of the branding and, um, design work.And so, you know, luckily we had a little bit of a foundation before COVID hit.So- Mm-hmmbefore COVID hit, we also had purchased our current office, which was a huge investment.Yeah.Moved out of, uh, Cummins Station over to East Nashville into our, uhWe bought an, that old church and renovated it.For anybody that’s listening, um, you know, most of the people that have been on the show get to experience it.But, uh, you know, it’s a big undertaking.And so all that happened, too, before COVID.Right.So not only did we get to COVID and we lost half of our revenue, ’cause 50% of it went away within a month.Yeah.And, um, and we had to pivot of, “God, what do we do next?”Mm-hmm.Because, you know, you know, luckily the year before, when we moved over here, we had, um, I think there were 40 employees.And we had some people that started to roll off because they wanted to go and start their own companies.Mm-hmm.And we were very supportive along the way of, you know, “Hey, just go out on top and we will, um, we’ll be your biggest client.Like, you know how our clients work from a video standpoint or animation.”Mm-hmm.”And, uh, you know how our project management team works, and so, yeah, we’ll use you.”And so luckily we had, uh, reduced the head count without even knowing what we were about to step into.Mm-hmm.So, you know, when COVID hit and we lose 50% of our business being the video, uh, people were still doing animations, but it was a little bit less because nobody knew where the economy was gonna go.And so we had to quickly pivot into doing more than just that in a big way.Like, HealthStream helped us kind of learn that.But, uh, at that point, we were out on our own of that’s the only kind of work that we need to be pitching.So training our team on how to manage it, uh, training our sales team on how to go sell it instead of just trying to go sell a video or a website or an animation, was just a monster-like undertaking.Yeah.Yeah, it’s, um, it’s a big pivot from, uh, the production mindset to more full service strategic agency.And when I think back to COVID, uh, you know, now I have the opportunity to see what it’s like to run the business and, uh, and the, the highs and the lows that come with it.I don’t think I, uh, ever truly had the, the understanding of probably what you went through during that period to keep, keep people employed, um, keep the business going.So I’m curious, like, what kept you going through that?Like, you could have just shut down the shop and said, “You know what?This was a good run.COVID’s wiped me out.”But instead you said, “Nope, we’re gonna pivot, and we’re gonna figure this thing out.”Like, what kept you going through that time?You know, um, I, I look back at, uh, there’s a podcast, How I Built This.Mm-hmm.And, and it’s, uh, I listen to it all the time, and it’s, um, basically you hear about all the big companies and you think, “Gosh, they just had this trajectory that, you know, it was a hockey stick.”Yeah.And you hear their stories, and it’s like, oh my God, they just about went out of business, right?And that was no different.I mean, I don’t know that anybody would know the gravity, and I couldn’t say it to any of our team because, you know, we, we were, we had, uh, a $600,000 line of credit, and we were tapped on it.About 590- Mm-hmmuh, is what we owed the bank on the line of credit.We had, um, we had a, um, credit card with $100,000 balance-and I think we had about 90 extended on the credit card.We had 40,000 in the bank, and we had to write payroll, like, the next week.Yeah.And thank God we landed a coupleA couple of our clients paid us, and, um, we, you know, we landed a few new clients, and then it was like, man, I wanna pay off all the obligations that we have to other people.And so I just never, never really thoughtI mean, there were days that I thought, man, business is gonna take me out.Mm-hmm.But I was not gonna go out without a fight.Right.And so, you know, luckily, the government, uh, gave the PPP loans, and that helped us keep the team employed, and then, you know, we were able to pay down some of that debt with that, and, uh, and that really saved us.Yeah.I mean, that, that program.But I think a lot of people would look at Snapshot and go, “Man, Mark, you’ve grown this thing, you know, along the way-and it’s a hockey stick,” and they have no idea that I was, like, tiptoeing on the edge.Right.Um, and soYeah.Not to mention, uh, right before COVID hits, we get hit with a tornado and, uh, we lose, we lose some video business out of that and, uhBut all that to say is that we come out the other side a lot stronger, and, uh, I think there’s a couple clients that, uh, really allowed us to, to spread our wings.And I think even before COVID, we always had this itch to do something more.Typically, when you’re on the production end, you’re kinda told what to do, and we always wanted to do more than that.We wanted a bigger seat at the table, and so while, you know, we had to go through all the trials and tribulations financially and with the business, I think ultimately it was a kick in the butt to say, “Go do the thing that you love, and go do it with clients that you love.”And that’s really been the story post-COVID as we grow into a full service agency.Mm-hmm.You know, the, um, we still did everything for everybody- Mm-hmmyou know, after COVID, ’cause we had to learn, like, how to build this, you know, accounts team and what an accounts team really did for the clients.Mm-hmm.And there were quite a few, like, start and stops there, um, just of, like, getting the right people that, uh, weren’t just account people sell- selling.Um, you know, we, we learned that quickly into more account people that are strategic, and they’re agency folks.Um, and then just learning how to execute on that kind of business with that kind of cadence- Mm-hmmwith bigger clients that we had not worked with.You know, uh, when I say bigger client, bigger clients doing bigger work- Rightwith this, like, full service.Like, we, um, brand, rebranded a 120-year-old bank and, you know, the CEO and I are still really good friends, and he, um, you know, we made a huge impact, uh, in their business during that time.you know, I always tell him, “You have no idea.You helped save our company- Rightyou know, back in that day,” ’cause had we not had that, you know, that firstIt’s really the confidence that it gave us that, man, we can do this in a big way to not only rebrand a bank but do all the design work from- Rightcheck cards, to checks, to the signage on the building, to everything in the branches, to, you know, anything that it takes from the website to digital.You know, and so that, I think, gave me the confidence- Rightand hopefully the team the confidence that, man, we can execute at this level.Yeah, and you fast-forward post-COVID, 5, 6 years later, uh, we’ve grown the team to be exactly what we wanted it to be.Uh, but we’ve also niched down into some core industries.You talked about post-COVID, it’s like, let’s get every client we can to build this business back, and I think what we saw is that’s, that’s a hard thing to do when you’re the master of none and jack of all trades, and, um, you know, y- that level of, of depth you have in different industries became a challenge for us.And so we find ourselves today with 2 core business lines, industrial, behavioral health.Um, that required discipline from you to say no to certain situations or certain clients.Like, tell me what it’s been like to make that transition from, “Hey, like, let’s take the business on.”When we were in the production days, it was a sales-focused organization.Mm-hmm.How many deals can we get in the pipeline to how do we grow more intentionally?Tell me about, like you as a founder, what that’s meant.Man, I would say there’s probably no founder listening to the show that would ever say they enjoy saying no.And in fact, I mean, I was the world’s worst at saying no.In fact, the team had to hold me accountable-to saying no more than I just took it all upon myself.Right.And so, you know, um, but, but I mean, it does take some Like some perseverance to go, “Man, we’re gonna niche down into these two and become experts.”We still have clients that are in other industries, but they’re people, like, we love working with.They, um, you know, they wanna do great work.We feel like we can make an impact.And so, you know, it’s, you know, i- but it is primarily focused to our outreach is gonna be in those 2 verticals.And, um, you know, I, I think, uh, that’s, you know, I think it’s helping a ton with our team learning and being confident.It’s given them the confidence that they know this better than anybody else out there.Right.And we can do great work because we know what these operators in these industries go through.Yeah, and I think you look at agencies as a whole, there’s, uh, the, the playing field is leveled in a lot of ways.Uh, back in the day, Snapshot might’ve been the best video production shop, but today you have a national community that has dozens of video production shops.And, uh, w- I think the f- way we look at it is, um, how do we add that, that layer of niche to it?How do we provide actual value and industry knowledge?And, uh, and that’s how we’re growing.But I’m curious, why behavioral health?Why industrial?Well, industrial, we hadWe looked at, like, the whole, like, the whole client base- Mm-hmmand we said, “Where are the biggest niches that we have already currently?”Right.Do we like working in them and can we make an impact inAnd the, um, you know, the industrial, the Caterpillar dealer network that we were into, the work we were doing there, it just made a ton of sense.Mm-hmm.It was a big piece of our business.They, you know, we had clients that really liked working with us.Uh, we had the knowledge, and so, you know, that was one that was kind of a no-brainer.The behavioral health was, uh, one that we had acquired quite a few clients in an early, you know, in a really quick fashion, and we just saw there’s a huge need out here.Mm-hmm.You know, the, the Cat dealers, uh, has expanded into more, like, heavy machinery, industrial-type work.Um, but we’re still the expert there because we have learned a ton from Caterpillar.Right.And so on the behavioral health side, you know, it was, man, we got all those new clients.Like, we see there’s an opportunity, but there’s, like, you know, tens of thousands of, like, behavioral health treatment centers around the United States.Like, what if we became the very best at what we do in this space?Right.Like, how much business could we build- Yeahoff of that?Agreed.I guess as you look out forward, right, so we’ve just talked a lot about all the ups and downs of the agency and what that journey’s been like, uh, and it’s been a fun one.But as you look forward, um, what does, what does success look like for you in the next 3 to 5 years for the agency?Yeah.I think, I mean, I think about it all the time and it’s, uh, you know, making sure that our team is happy and engaged and doing their very best work, and we can bring in that type of work.I think it’s, you know, having clients that treat us like we’re a part of their team- Mm-hmmyou know, is very important, and I think we have a lot that, uh, feel like we’re just an extension of their team.And I think the, um, you know, the quality of the work that we do has to be, like, extraordinary, but that’s a given, you know?And now it’s not so much just the quality of the work being the design or the look and feel, it’s the results that we get.Mm-hmm.Because a lot of people pay us to get them results because their businesses depend on it.Right.And I think that challenge is what I’ve always looked at, uh, every challenge and been up for it, and it’s like I almost enjoy and thrive on, man, let’s, if there’s a challenge there, let’s, let’s figure it out.Right.And so, you know, but I think, um, you know, as we look forward it’s, you know, building on those couple niches, becoming the very best.I, I never wanted to get into business and be just average.Right.You know, I always, you know, when we were the small video production firm, I wanted to do extraordinary work, and I wanted, uh, our clients to say, “Man, you’re one of the very best, if not the best in town.”Even competing against big video production firms.Now I would say there’s a lot of people I look at out there in the market that are very good at what they do in the video.You know?Right.Or, um, you know, if it’s, if it’s building websites, like I always wanted to build the very best sites that were out there.Right.And now we have an opportunity to build something extraordinary in both these verticals and continue to sharpen our, um, you know, swords on other clients that come in that may not be in those, but they’re actually gonna be, you know, amazing clients to work with- Sureand we can do good work, and maybe even learn something off of, like w- with implementing AI or whatever it is they’re asking for us to do.Right.UmWell, and, uh, as a part of that, uh, growth in those industries, you started a couple podcasts, uh, along the way, and, um, I remember you saying, “I wanna start a behavioral health podcast, and I wanna start a Nashville-focused creative podcast,” and I thought you were crazy.And, uh, I was, I was like, “I don’t think you know how much work this is gonna be.”Uh, next thing you know, we’re sitting here in a dedicated studio with dedicated team members, and we’re producing content that’s focused, uh, on behavioral health with Mastermind, and with The Spark, uh, building the Nashville community.Uh, tell me about that journey and, and, and what it’s been like to, to spin those podcasts up.You know, um, I mean, this would be a lesson that maybe I would tell other business owners or agency folks is that, uh, never hear, never, you know, always, like, solicit feedback- Mm-hmmbut never, like, hold onto it as, you know, hey, this is the gospel, you know?And I think when we, when I mentioned that, there were lots of people that were like, “Man, you, there’s no way we can do this.”And unfortunately, all I heard was, “There’s no way you can do this.”And, you know, I probably pushed a little too hard to get it-up and going, but, uh, you know, we got, we got 2, we got, does the, the, once the space started to come together and the team could see it, and everybody took so much pride in what we were building, and then, you know, again, like I never wanted to launch something that we couldn’t be the very best at, and, you know, that comes with quality of what we do.We’re so lucky that, like, we have a executive producer, Paige, and she does amazing work on all of our podcasts, and they’re super polished and, you know, we treat the guests that come on with white glove service of, you know, giving them, uh, the questions in advance and, you know, gifts when they leave here, and it’s, um, you know, but, but it is, it is a lot of work.I don’t know that I really realized how much it is.And well, there’s plenty of other team members that we have that lean into it from social media to, you know, just the design and development of our sites- Rightand keeping those up.Uh, so we’ve got a big team working around it, but, uh, you know, it’s been, the Mastermind podcast for behavioral health has, uh, you know, been great in that we’ve got to meet so many people, and we’ve got so many, like, of the top people in the industry- Righton the podcast in a very early, I mean, I think we’re at 68 episodes now, somewhere in that range, and, you know, to, to be able to get those type of people on there has been pretty extraordinary.That’s right.And it’s, you know, something that we did for thought leadership and for, you know, lead generation potentially down the road.Uh, you know, and I think we’re gonna start to see the fruits of the labor, uh, there, but I think we are becoming known as the thought leader in that market space.The Spark, which we’re doing today, has been my, uh, kind of vanity project-of how do we bring in agency owners and talk about their journeys, or creative directors or, you know, creative folks in the community, maybe CMOs from some of the bigger companies in town, or, um, yesterday, uh, and his episode will probably come out before this one, but we had Eric Jackson, who’s the VP of marketing for Tractor Supply Company.There’s probably 4 or 5 agencies that are gonna listen to this that actually work with him.Mm-hmm.And it’s like we got to hear his journey, and we got to, um, you know, hear what, what he looks for in his agency partners and, you know, what, um, you know, what his vision is for the future of Tractor Supply marketing, his agency relationships, his team.And, you know, I just think it’s an educational tool to help lift up the creative community of Nashville and kind of break down the barriers of, like, this competition that- Rightmaybe everybody feels.And I would say at the end of the day, though, like I’ve got to meet people that I would’ve never met in my life- Yeahin the agency space had I not done this.Mm-hmm.And I’m very, like blessed with that, and I think about it all the time, of you know, Nelson Eddy, uh, with DVL, and Finn Partners, and Chuck Creasy, and David Bohan, and you know, just the number of amazing people that have been on The Spark that I would’ve never had a chance to actually meet ’em in person.Yeah, I think the podcast is like a natural extension of how you’ve always done business.And, uh, when I look at Mastermind, you mentioned you always wanted to be the best at what you did, and you looked at this as an opportunity not just to gain authority, but to learn and to be better.And then when you look at The Spark, I think one thing I always thought was really interesting about you was, uh, compared to other agency, uh, owners or operators, there wasn’t a lot of collaboration, and you were always out in search of how do we, how do we rise this thing together?Um, and so I think they’re both really natural extensions of who you are and what you believe in.Well, thanks man.Yeah.I think as we talk about Nashville community, I know EO has been a really big part of your journey.Um, you spent over a decade in EO serving on boards.Uh, I’m just curious, like what does that, uh, what has that organization meant to you and the Nashville community as a whole?Man, um, EO has meant a lot.I mean, I’ve, you know, been in, uh, a forum with some amazing, like, other CEOs that are in, um, different businesses, and, you know, to be able to have a group where you can share business challenges, uh, that you’re facing and really have the confidence that everybody in that group is dealing with a very similar thing or has in the past, you know, is very encouraging and gives you that confidence that, man, I’m not a failure.And, um, you know, and then to have those people, like, help you get through it- Righthas been extraordinary.Some of the biggest challenges we’ve faced as a company along the way have been talked through in that group, and I’ve had a ton of great feedback that has came out of that that we’ve worked on.Right.And, uh, you know, and, you know, if you look at, uh, Nashville’s EO, it’s about, um, you know, I mean, I can’t remember all the stats, but it’s, you know, if you took every EO member in Nashville- Mm-hmmwhich it has the number one chapter in the United States from a size standpoint- Mm-hmmand the third-biggest in the world, it’s the 5th or 4th or 5th biggest company in the state of Tennessee if you put all the members together.Wow.So it’s a big network of people that you get to meet a lot of pretty amazing business folks that are doing great things in the Nashville community.And that’s probably another th- reason why, like, you know, The Spark and, you know, helping lift up other people and, you know, highlighting other great, you know, agencies and creative folks- Rightin the community.And, you know, with EO being the big help with going through all you’ve been through building the agency, I know that you’ve leveraged that into investing your time in EO Catalyst, and with helping invest in outside companies who maybe don’t have that operational expertise.Uh, why did that interest you, and, and, and what does that do for you as Mark?Oh, man, it’s, uh, you know, it helps sharpen my, you know, sword all the time.Like of, I get to learn as much from them as I think I give them.I think they would all go, “That’s not true.”Mm-hmm.But, but, uh, I do.I learn from each and every one of them.They, um, all face the same business challenges at that size, and, uh, it’s been something that’s really, like helped me help a lot of people in that now I just say the only folks that I need to mentor out of Catalyst are gonna be agency people- Rightbecause I can really help move the needle there instead of the roofing company or landscaping company or, you know, um, or a doctor that’s trying to launch a medical practice.You know?And so, you know, I’ve been blessed to be able to work with some amazing, like, other small agency owners that, you know, it’s just, to see them grow, you know, their agencies in a big way and become EO members after they hit the milliondollar mark is just really rewarding.Right.And it, you know, it, I always feel like if you have that mindset of abundance, you know, that it’ll come back to you tenfold, and I think it has along the way.Right.And, uh, as a part of that, you’ve, uh, taken a, a part of Huckleberry Branding, Motus Studio, 2 smaller agencies that, um, that maybe lacked some of that experience that you had.Tell me what it’s been like not being the owner of something, but being a contributor to something that, uh, maybe isn’t 100% yours.Yeah.Well, it’s, um, I mean, again, it’s great to be able to help people at that scale.And I mean, Huckleberry, they, with, uh, Mariko and Jason, they’re super sharp operators.They do great work and, you know, their values aligned with mine, and we just had a conversation of the mentorship and what I could do for them.Mm-hmm.And we all agreed that, hey, maybe it would make sense for, uh, me to be a, a small minority partner in what they’re trying to build.And, you know, it’s been a great, um, you know, a great relationship there.And Motus Studio with us doing, you know, less video work than we, uh, used to do, it was great to, um, you know, pour into a former, um, you know, person that worked here and helped us get the video up and off the ground- Mm-hmmto create his own company and to help support his growth that he probably wouldn’t have done it on his own.Right.But if he had the network, he would, and it’s been a lot of fun, you know, launching something up and off the ground and not being 100% responsible for it- Rightfrom a day-to-day standpoint on either one of them.And, you know, that’s with Creative Assembly, what we’re trying to create is that.And then hopefully down the road as it scales up, bringing in other, you know, business people that can help support in different ways and- Rightyou know.I think if, uh, if you look back to maybe when you first started EO, when you first started to see Nashville as an entrepreneurial landscape, I bet you it looks a lot different now than it did back then.Oh, man.Nashville, uh, you know, is aI mean, it’s a great place to do business.1, I know I’ve said this on many podcasts in the past, but it’s just the people wanna help each other here, uh, more than anywhere else I’ve seen.Yeah.And, uh, you know, to be able to get connected in with monster companies that you have no business-being in front of the CEO and you’re sitting there, um, is, you know, it’s, it’s fun to watch how many people when you ask for help, you know, they actually give it.And I think that’s another, um, you know, challenge that I see with business owners that, uh, that can’t scale is they just, they’re fearful to ask.Mm-hmm.And I always encourage them, like, “Ask.What’s the worst thing that could happen?”They say no.Right.But if you never ask, you never get anything.Mm.You know?And it’s like you never get what you’re looking for without asking.Right.And I think you’ve always begged that question.And I think that’s what’s kept s- not just Snapshot going, but, uh, I’ve always thought you’ve done an amazing job of som- sometimes, uh, overly so, helping other people, and I think that maybe it’s just in your DNA and how you were raised.But, uh, I know that you’ve impacted a, a bunch of people across the Nashville community- Mannot, not excluding the people who work for you.Well, thank you, man.Yeah.It’s, uh, you know, as I look back at Snapshot, the amount of extraordinary people that have worked here.Mm.You’ve worked side by side with- A lot of themmany of them, too, and it’s like we’re very lucky to be a little part of their lives for, you know, the time they were with us.But I mean, you know, I wouldn’t even wanna start naming, ’cause there were so many that made such a big impact in our business, um, you know, positively.We wouldn’t be where we’re at today with- Rightwithout a bunch of them.And so, um, you know, butAnd even seeing some of the big projects that we’ve done, I mean, 2 of which came from, you know, um, 1, one big one came from you- Mm-hmmwhich is helping helping Nashville get, uh, MLS to Nashville.Right.Working with the ownership group.That’s something we probably don’t promote enough.Mm-hmm.You know, the Amazon to Nashville, it’s, you know, uh, working with the mayor’s office, the state, and, uh, the city’s economic development to get, you know, what was at that time the biggest jobs grant in the state of Tennessee history- Rightwhich was getting- It was a big dealthose, uh, getting Amazon to move their operations hub here.We’ve made some big impacts in, you know, those type of opportunities for the city.But also, you know, what’s really rewarding is when we can make impact in our employees’ lives and then also our clients.’Cause we’ve, you know, I think you’veI know you’ve seen it along the way, too, is we’ve got a lot of marketing folks promoted up into- Totallybig roles in their companies.We’ve had companies that go, “Man, if we wouldn’t have started working with you, we would never be where we’re at today.”And those are the kinds of things with the team and with the clients that really keep you going every day.Yeah.I remember you telling me when I first started, uh, we were trying to get our clients promoted.And, uh, obviously we needed to do great work and all those things, but when you look at it from that angle, you start to build relationships that last a long time.Mm-hmm.Um, I guess as we kind of land the plane here, uh, is there anything, uh, about the Snapshot story that you typically leave out whenever you’re sharing with people?Is there something behind the curtain that would be meaningful for a founder or a marketer to hear?Hmm.Man, you know, I mean, there’s probably a ton that I leave out, but, uh, you know, I think, you know, as a, you know, as we’ve grown the company- You know, I’ve had to learn a lot of things along the way.Mm-hmm.And you know, if you, if I told you every failure that I had made along the way-you, you would go, “God, Mark is nothing but a failure.”But, you know, those have been great learning experiences and helped me grow.And, um, you know, I, I think there’s a ton we’ve done really, really well.There’s equal amount that we’ve probably had done incorrectly and we had to learn from.Yeah.So, um, you know, trying to, trying to narrow it down to one specific thing-uh, you know, I, um- If I, if I could help you answer it, I think the one thing that I’ve seen is, uh, is just don’t give up on it.Don’t give up on the thing you’re working on.And there’s, uh, there’s very little people in the world that are willing to put effort behind something and do it well.And, and whenever you are, typically you’ll win 9 times out of 10.Yeah.Um, and that’s been a common thread in the best of times and the worst of times- Well-throughout Snapshotlook at you.I mean, you, um, you know, have been honored and blessed-to have a guy like you that has worked his way up in the company, and ultimately became president of the company.And, you know, that, um, gives me the confidence that, uh, man, we’re gonna be in great hands for the next however many years, you know?So it’s been, uh, you know, it’s been a, a great seeing your journey, and also all the other people- Yeahyou know, are here currently.I think we have an amazing team today.We’ve had amazing teams all along the way, too, so yeah.I’m looking forward to where we’re going, and I appreciate all you’ve done to help Snapshot and myself and everyone here get to, get to where we’re at.And I appreciate you sharing your story today and, and the story of Snapshot.Thanks, Josh.I think you may be trying to take my position here.You did a really good job.I mean, I think I- Hey, first time trying, not too bad, huh?I think I, uh, learned a little bit today of-uh, what I’m gonna do different.So I appreciate you leading the conversation.You got it.Well, Mark, thank you for trusting me to own your story and, uh, for building the show that made this conversation possible in the first place.Uh, and to the audience, thank you for watching.Like, subscribe, comment.Uh, we really appreciate it, and we’ll see you next time on The Spark.And that’s a wrap on this episode of The Spark from Creative Assembly.Thanks for spending time with us and exploring the minds shaping Nashville’s creative future.If you’re walking away more inspired, connected, or energized, that’s exactly the point.A big thank you to our sponsor, Snapshot, and the incredible team behind the scenes who make this show possible.Your support fuels every conversation and keeps collaboration alive.So if you haven’t already, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a review.Thanks again for tuning in.Until next time, stay creative, stay curious, and keep that spark.